How to debate a Muslim
by sheikyermami on June 16, 2009
Here are some tips on how not to get caught with malevolent detractors who would pull the Islamic wool over your eyes and ears, (if you let them)
In the last couple of days we’ve have quite a few of these ‘defenders of Islam’ on this blog. To spot these annoying time-wasters I dug this out from our “Islam” archive, just to help you all on how to smell the coffee early enough. Note also that most of these mental giants use Western names like ’Dave’ or ‘Michael’ and usually call themselves ‘Christians’- all in the noble spirit of “war is deceit”- but they are easily spotted.
Debating Mohammedan Taqiyya Doctors
Hugh Fitzgerald wrote this quite a while ago, I have taken liberty to edit it slightly for length and this blog entry:
Infuriating, is it not, to attempt to have a rational debate and to find yourself instead with an opponent who slithers about like an eel, and with whom you can never quite engage, because you can never quite grasp and hold him long enough, because he is forever slipping and sliding and meanwhile keeping of a non-stop patter of distraction and attack and omission and exaggeration. The very idea of a debate is or should be related to the idea that each party attempts, in good faith, to examine a topic together, and to ask, or answer, questions of or from the other.
Muslims don’t do that. They don’t ‘play nice’- because they are religiously obliged to defend the indefensible, and you will be frustrated out of your wits about the detractions, the lies and prevarications that will be thrown your way.
Unless the moderator-hosts for such things set up strict rules, and demand that questions be answered and not remain un-answered or answered with irrelevancies, the farce will continue. And all that will have been learned is something about the eerily eel-like quality of the other side, with all that slipping and slithering –perhaps not quite as effectively as Tariq Ramadan — as far away from the real and serious matter at hand, as is possible.
Dhimmi Watch: Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim, Part II
Dhimmi Watch: Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim, Part I
A note from Robert Spencer
Deception in Islam
How to Debate a Muslim
Turnspeak, lies, deflection and taqiyya:
When trying to debate with Muhammed worshipers you will end up frustrated and exasperated: Muhammedans are masters of a technique called ‘turnspeak’- they use Tu Quoque (’you do it too-arguments) ‘accuse the accuser’- they employ kitman & taqiyya (lies & deception and dissimulation) they deflect away from the subject matter to avoid getting nailed on the unpleasant things like the atrocities, the rape, the plunder, slavery and child-molesting of the ‘profit’ Mohammed and his companions. Inevitably, if you know your stuff-, you will be cursed, they will threaten to kill you and tell you that you will go to hell for questioning their belief-system.
Expect this and prepare yourself accordingly:
Criticizing Islam? Get ready for this:
Whenever you criticize anything related to Islam, Allah, Muhammad, Sharia laws or muslim community, you will find a refutation immediately. To refute something is OK but the way muslims refute is funny. Here are some most common ways of a muslim-refute, the order may change depending upon your and muslim’s caliber:
1. First of all, muslims will say, ”you are ignorant, you are a hypocrite, this is false information, this is a lie”, and, when it comes to Islamic terrorism: “get over it…”
Whatever you say is wrong and whatever they say is only right.
2. Next step is Taqqiya. i.e. “Islam means peace”, “Islam was not spread by sword but love”, “No compulsion in religion”,
3. If you quote from Koran or hadith, you will be accused of quoting verses in bits and pieces, or they claim ”suicide bombing is not allowed in Islam, there is nothing in the Koran…blah blah” or “FGM is un-Islamic” when it is in fact the Muslims who insist on such barbaric practices because of a vague hadith.
4. Be prepared for accusation that the verses you quoted are “twisted and out of context.” (an infidel cannot possibly understand Islam, but all’s well if you, no matter how foolish or ignorant, accept Islam…)
5. If you provide reference to your quote, then muslims will say “All your references are false and lies”, which implies only their references are true and correct.
6. You will be advised to “Read the koran first and you will see the light”
7. If you say you have already read it then they will doubt you as if you are a liar.
8. If you quote full verses (not bits & pieces) from koran and hadith, your translation is incorrect / misleading. Then you will be advised to learn Arabic and read the the original version.
9. If you say, I read the same Koran with most authentic translations, which muslims are referring to, then you will be asked “Did you read only the cover?”, “Read it with open mind”
(Read with closed mind, like a muslim reads by keeping their brains aside)
10. Besides your reading of the translated Koran or even though you know Arabic, if you quote from the Koran, they quote hadith, tafseer etc, but if you quote hadith, then they will say “Only Koran is authentic”.
11. Deflection: After all this, if you are still willing to continue, they will distract you and other readers from the original issue/topic and feed you with plenty of irrelevant issues.
12. If you are still sticking to the original issue, Muslims will attack other religions’ scriptures like the Bible, Torah, Vedas, Geeta etc and bring up events like global warming, world poverty, the KKK or ‘Tim McVeigh”, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc.
13. Be prepared for one or more muslims to showing their way of convincing, such as Copy & paste stuff or reference from crap Islamic sites. This includes verses from Koran & hadith, twisted facts from non islamic holy scriptures (like mohammads coming) prophesized in all of them or that the Jews (or Christians) have falsified their scriptures to deny Muhammad his rightful place as “the last prophet.”
14. In this context, one or more muslims will write about Miracles in the Koran or ‘koranic science’. Remember that whatever is discovered in recent time, Muslims will attribute it to Koran, but they will keep quite till it is discovered. They will never talk about the fallacies in the Koran like the “Sky is a dome on imaginary pillars”, “ the Sun sets in a muddy pond”, “the sun is revolving around the earth” etc. If you draw their attention to these fallacies, they will copy and paste crap again which is totally illogical and irrational. You will be again advised to read Koran.
15. You are about to loose your patience but still continuing, then comes personal attacks. You will be abused as fool, stupid, idiot, pig, dog etc. (in my case a Zionist, a label I wear with pride…)
16. If that does not work, then there will be accusations of taking money for your criticism of islam. You may get this also “Western media is biased, its propaganda to defame islam, Islam is wronged by all non muslims” etc.
17. If you don’t stop there, then muslims will run for your mother and sister.
18. If you are stubborn and still want to continue, you will be cursed like “Burn in hell, you will repent on judgement day, still time to seek the truth” etc
19. Towards the end, when all of the above has failed, you will be threatened directly like, “beware, watch it, keep cool, my sincere advice” or indirectly like “Give me your email id, don’t hide behind a false name, you are a coward (since you have a false id on the net), Then you might get an invitation to go to debate one to one or visit mosques or Islamic centers like Islamic Research Foundation in person” etc.
20. And finally- its drum beating, for all Muslioms, as if they won a debate, even when they lose miserably, because Koran is the word of allah.
Since the Koran is allah’s word and is clear to understand and is for all man kind, for all time and for all places, why there are hadiths, tafseers and commentaries?
Why are various sects of islam and clerics understanding it differently, while Koran is very clear and for all to understand?
Why some verses are for a particular place and time, i.e. 1400 years ago and for the Arabic peninsula only, while the Koran is for all time, for all places and for all mankind?
Why there is Abrogation, later verses of the Koran supersede earlier ones? Was allah not able to reveal it at first time or did he change his mind time to time to suite muhammad’s needs?
Why is islam, being the only true religion, not able to be in majority, leave alone the only religion (as they claim) on the face of this earth, even after more than 1400 years since ‘revealed’ to muhammad?
There are many more questions but I will leave them for next time.
Update on this 25 December 2006
Islam, Lies & Terror
Asserting that terrorism is not inherent to Islam is either uniformed or willfully untruthful.
Let’s look at what one of Islam’s own “holy books” say about the subject. The reports of the Prophet’s sayings and deeds are called Hadith. Al-Bukhari’s Hadith is second only to the Qur’an in importance to Muslims. It is comprised of the most authentic traditions associated with early Islam and the words of Muhammad.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror. The treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.’”
Bukhari:V1B7N331 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given five things which were not given to anyone else. Allah made me victorious with terror. The Earth was made for me…. Booty was made lawful for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else.’”
Other Hadith by other authors also go into this, but this one source alone reveals the lie about Islam being a “religion of peace.” The Qur’an and other Hadith also say that it is OK to lie and use deceit and trickery against the infidels in the furtherance of the muslim cause, and that’s what they are doing when they talk about the “religion of peace.”
Mohammad approved of lying (Life of Mohammad Ihaq ed Hisham translated Guillaume (at pages 367-8 and 519) and Ghazali the great Muslim scholar makes it clear Islam allows lying to promote Islam:
Ghazali says: “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible.” (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)
Tagged as: how to debate a Muslim
theresaj June 16, 2009 at 8:28 pm
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